Legislature(2007 - 2008)BARNES 124

02/12/2008 08:00 AM House COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS


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08:04:08 AM Start
08:04:26 AM HJR30
09:55:00 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HJR 30 DISAPPROVING KETCHIKAN ANNEXATION TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
HJR 30-DISAPPROVING KETCHIKAN ANNEXATION                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:04:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH announced  that  the only  order of  business                                                              
would be  HOUSE JOINT  RESOLUTION NO.  30, Disapproving  the Local                                                              
Boundary  Commission recommendation  regarding  the annexation  of                                                              
territory to the Ketchikan Gateway Borough.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:04:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LEDOUX moved  to adopt  CSHJR  30, Version  25-LS1378\E,                                                              
Cook,  2/1/08,   as  the  working   document.    There   being  no                                                              
objection, Version E was before the committee.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:06:28 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BILL THOMAS,  Alaska  State Legislature,  speaking                                                              
as the  sponsor of  HJR 30, opined  that HJR  30 should  be passed                                                              
and allow the legislature  to decide the fate of  the petition for                                                              
annexation  of territory  to the  Ketchikan Gateway  Borough.   He                                                              
recalled  his time  serving on  the House  Community and  Regional                                                              
Affairs Standing  Committee  when he encouraged  the formation  of                                                              
boroughs.   He emphasized that he's  not opposed to  the formation                                                              
of new  boroughs, but is  opposed to a  money grab  for annexation                                                              
of lands that impact  other communities.  The impact  will be felt                                                              
by 16  small communities with 12  school districts that  has about                                                              
2,700  children.   However, the  Ketchikan  Gateway Borough  (KGB)                                                              
won't   provide   any   additional  services   in   these   areas.                                                              
Therefore, Representative  Thomas opined  that this  annexation is                                                              
an  attempt  to  obtain  the  forest   receipts  for  the  Tongass                                                              
National Forest.   He explained  that the Tongass  National Forest                                                              
receipts  are  impact  aid  money  given  to  the  communities  in                                                              
Southeast  Alaska where  logging  has occurred  on federal  lands.                                                              
He  said he  is somewhat  surprised  that the  recent petition  by                                                              
Ketchikan was  accepted as it reads  similar in form  and language                                                              
to the  1999 petition  that was  rejected.  Representative  Thomas                                                              
then turned to the  concern with regard to the payment  in lieu of                                                              
taxes  (PILT),  which is  utilized  in  areas where  there  aren't                                                              
boroughs.    In  the  [area  to   be  annexed],  Prince  of  Wales                                                              
District,  the  PILT  amounts  to   $543,913,000  of  which  about                                                              
$200,000 would  be given to the  Ketchikan Gateway Borough  if the                                                              
annexation were  to be approved.   The aforementioned  will create                                                              
an even  stronger hardship coupled  with the $1.2 million  loss in                                                              
Tongass  National Forest  receipts.   He  highlighted that  during                                                              
testimony  to the  Local  Boundary  Commission (LBC),  36  members                                                              
provided testimony  and no  members of the  public spoke  in favor                                                              
of  the annexation.    Only borough  staff  and  three current  or                                                              
former  assembly  members  of  Ketchikan  spoke in  favor  of  the                                                              
annexation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  THOMAS  directed   attention  to  a  letter  dated                                                              
January  31,  2008,  from the  Ketchikan  Gateway  Borough,  which                                                              
mainly refers  to the inequities  of funding.  He  emphasized that                                                              
most of  the communities being  impacted are former  logging camps                                                              
that  became  small communities.    The  letter alleges  that  the                                                              
unorganized  boroughs receive  a  disproportionate  amount of  the                                                              
National Forest  receipts, which are  divided into three  types of                                                              
funds.   With regard  to the funds  for the roads,  Representative                                                              
Thomas  pointed out  that on Prince  of Wales  Island alone  there                                                              
are   between  5,000-6,000   miles   of  road   [due  to   logging                                                              
activities] and thus  that area should share a  greater proportion                                                              
of  the funding.   He  clarified  that he  isn't speaking  against                                                              
logging.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:15:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  THOMAS emphasized  that  this proposed  annexation                                                              
is about  the money because  save that  there's no reason  to move                                                              
forward with  the annexation.   Furthermore, with approval  of the                                                              
annexation, Ketchikan's  revenues will increase by  five times its                                                              
current  revenues  with no  increase  in  impact to  the  borough.                                                              
However,  the  following  cities  will  experience  the  following                                                              
losses:  City  of Craig - 1  percent; Hoonah - .9 percent;  Kake -                                                              
.9 percent; Hydaburg - 1.4 percent; and Klawock - 1.3 percent.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:16:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX  inquired as to  whether any school  children live                                                              
in the areas to be annexed.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS  replied no.  He characterized  the areas to                                                              
be annexed  as uninhabited and  for which Ketchikan  would provide                                                              
no  service  at  all.    However,   the  Southeast  Island  School                                                              
District may need  to close one of its schools  if this annexation                                                              
occurs and  it loses it's share  of the National  Forest receipts.                                                              
This  proposed annexation  is going  to create  a large  financial                                                              
hole for  the earlier  mentioned communities  and doesn't  seem to                                                              
encourage the  formation of  a borough.   He then highlighted  the                                                              
timeline of events  with this proposed annexation  and the actions                                                              
of former LBC  Commissioner Dan Bockhorst.  He  suggested that the                                                              
committee  may want  to ask Mr.  Bockhorst what  is different  and                                                              
made   him  change   his   mind   with  the   current   annexation                                                              
application.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:18:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   CISSNA  related   her   understanding  that   the                                                              
sponsor's  concern is  the funding  lost  due to  loss of  Tongass                                                              
National Forest  receipts.   She inquired as  to how  that relates                                                              
to education funding.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS  explained that the Tongass  National Forest                                                              
receipts are to be used primarily for education funding.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA  asked  if  the  receipts  were  originally                                                              
intended for schools.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  THOMAS clarified  that the  receipts are  intended                                                              
for roads  and schools.  However,  he reiterated that  the primary                                                              
use of  these receipts  is for  education.   Juneau is  the number                                                              
one  recipient of  these  receipts, although  there  are no  clear                                                              
cuts  in the  City &  Borough of  Juneau.   Representative  Thomas                                                              
then  pointed  out  that  the  Tongass  National  Forest  receipts                                                              
weren't reauthorized,  although there's a strong  effort to reopen                                                              
the Tongass National  Forest at a level of 300  million board feet                                                              
a year.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
[Co-Chair Fairclough passed the gavel to Co-Chair LeDoux.]                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:23:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LEDOUX  inquired  as to  who  currently  receives  these                                                              
forest receipts in the uninhabited areas.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  THOMAS explained that  currently the  receipts are                                                              
placed  in a  pool and  the  receipts are  parsed  out based  upon                                                              
whether  the  area is  organized  or  not.    This refers  to  the                                                              
receipts  for the  unorganized  areas.   Ketchikan,  since it's  a                                                              
borough, already  receives its funds  as do other  organized areas                                                              
[in the  Southeast Alaska].   The  proposed annexation  results in                                                              
the  loss  of  about  $1.2  million  in  Tongass  National  Forest                                                              
receipts [from the  areas outside the borough]  because it's based                                                              
on the acreage  left outside the  borough.  At the same  time, the                                                              
PILT  amounts  to  an additional  $200,000  loss  to  communities,                                                              
which   totals   $1.4   million  loss   to   these   [unorganized]                                                              
communities.      In  further   response   to   Co-Chair   LeDoux,                                                              
Representative   Thomas   deferred   to  others   regarding   what                                                              
percentage of that is federal revenues.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:26:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SCOTT  BRANDT-ERICHSEN,   Attorney,  Ketchikan   Gateway  Borough,                                                              
requested  that the  committee reject  HJR  30.   He informed  the                                                              
committee  that  there  is  a  pending  court  challenge  on  this                                                              
proposed  annexation.  Therefore,  the legality  and propriety  of                                                              
the LBC  process will be  determined by  the court.   Although the                                                              
legislature may  wish to consider  the aforementioned,  it doesn't                                                              
need to  guide the committee's  decision.  During  the legislative                                                              
review process,  the legislature  has the  opportunity to  express                                                              
its view  with regard to the  policy.  He suggested  the committee                                                              
consider  the  message  it  would   send  if  this  annexation  is                                                              
rejected.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:27:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LEDOUX  inquired  as   to  the  difference  between  the                                                              
original annexation proposal and this most recent proposal.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BRANDT-ERICHSEN  specified  that there  are  some  structural                                                              
changes,  both  in  the  regulations  and the  way  in  which  the                                                              
petition  was  put together.    He  explained  that in  the  first                                                              
process, the Ketchikan  Gateway Borough sought to  carve out small                                                              
pockets  around  Meyers  Chuck and  Hyder  without  following  the                                                              
natural  geography.   At  that time,  the  LBC  initially said  it                                                              
would  reject the  petition, but  would  approve it  if Hyder  and                                                              
Meyers  Chuck  were  included.    The  Ketchikan  Gateway  Borough                                                              
Assembly  determined that  if the  LBC  wishes, it  can amend  the                                                              
petition  to include  Hyder and  Meyers Chuck.   The residents  of                                                              
Hyder  and  Meyers  Chuck  didn't  want  to  be  included  in  the                                                              
Ketchikan  Gateway Borough.   Therefore,  the borough stayed  with                                                              
it's initial application,  which the LBC rejected.   With the most                                                              
recent application,  the Ketchikan  Gateway Borough  petitioned to                                                              
include  Meyers  Chuck  and developed  more  detailed  information                                                              
about  Hyder.   He  informed the  committee  that  Hyder uses  the                                                              
Canadian  phone system,  power,  and money.   Hyder's  connections                                                              
lay more with Canada than the U.S.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:29:30 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BRANDT-ERICHSEN,  in  further response  to  Co-Chair  LeDoux,                                                              
specified that  the Ketchikan Gateway Borough  proposed annexation                                                              
of Meyers  Chuck, as did the  Wrangell Borough.  The  LBC decision                                                              
on  the  Wrangell  petition  placed Meyers  Chuck  and  Union  Bay                                                              
within  the   Wrangell  Borough.     The  LBC  has   approved  the                                                              
aforementioned  so far, but  there are  still some required  steps                                                              
remaining, such  as a vote  on the matter  in Wrangell.   He noted                                                              
that the  Ketchikan Gateway  Borough told the  LBC that  it didn't                                                              
object  to  those  communities  being  included  in  the  Wrangell                                                              
Borough, if the  LBC viewed that as more appropriate.   Earlier on                                                              
in  the  process  the  residents   of  Meyers  Chuck  indicated  a                                                              
preference  to  be included  in  the  Wrangell Borough.    Another                                                              
difference  between the  two petitions  was the  amendment of  the                                                              
LBC's regulations.   One  of the amendments  shifted the  focus to                                                              
whether  the  proposed  borough would  have  sufficient  resources                                                              
provide  the services  throughout its  proposed boundaries,  which                                                              
the  LBC found  to  be  the case.    He  then noted  that  another                                                              
difference  is   that  the  Department  of  Education   and  Early                                                              
Development  (EED)  opposed  the  earlier petition,  but  did  not                                                              
oppose the current  petition.  The other difference  is that there                                                              
seemed to be a  change in LBC philosophy such that  there's a less                                                              
strict adherence  to the  Model Borough  Boundaries.   This change                                                              
in  philosophy,  he  opined,  is reflected  in  the  Wrangell  and                                                              
Ketchikan  decisions  because  the   Model  Borough  Boundary  for                                                              
Wrangell  includes Wrangell  and  Ketchikan in  a single  borough.                                                              
The  LBC didn't  reject Wrangell's  petition,  although it  didn't                                                              
include Petersburg.   Furthermore,  the LBC expressed  interest in                                                              
Ketchikan  ultimately including  Hyder, and  didn't strictly  hold                                                              
to the Model Borough Boundaries.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BRANDT-ERICHSEN then  clarified  that the  area proposed  for                                                              
annexation  isn't  completely  vacant, but  includes  some  remote                                                              
lodges  and privately  held land.    The owners  of those  haven't                                                              
objected to the  proposed annexation, he related.   However, those                                                              
objecting  are   folks  from  communities  and   school  districts                                                              
located  outside  of  the  proposed annexation  area.    The  only                                                              
explanation,  he   opined,  seems   to  be  the   National  Forest                                                              
receipts.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:33:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRANDT-ERICHSEN  informed  the committee  that when the  draft                                                              
petition was presented  to the Ketchikan Gateway  Borough Assembly                                                              
in  1996, it  was accompanied  by  two budgets.    One budget  was                                                              
based  on the  premise that  Congress continued  to fund  National                                                              
Forest receipts  at a  high level  and second  budget based  on no                                                              
National Forest  receipts.   On one  budget the Ketchikan  Gateway                                                              
Borough would  gain $1 million  or more,  but on the  other budget                                                              
there would  be revenue losses  in the first  year or two  and the                                                              
revenues  in the  future  would be  about  $100,000 in  additional                                                              
funds each  year.  The  assembly at the  time recognized  that the                                                              
National  Forest receipts  may  not continue  and  was willing  to                                                              
accept  the  additional  territory and  provide  local  government                                                              
services  to the  territory,  even without  the  current level  of                                                              
National  Forest receipts.   Mr.  Brandt-Erichsen  said that  it's                                                              
unfortunate  that  communities  on  Prince  of  Wales  Island  are                                                              
objecting to  the expansion  of the  Ketchikan Gateway  Borough as                                                              
there  has been  a  long history  of  a positive  and  cooperative                                                              
relationship  between the  communities on  Prince of Wales  Island                                                              
and the  Ketchikan Gateway  Borough.   Furthermore, Ketchikan  has                                                              
served as a regional  service and support center.   He related the                                                              
hope that this  process doesn't result in long-term  damage to the                                                              
relationship.    The Ketchikan  Gateway  Borough  agrees with  the                                                              
LBC's  finding   that  what  the  federal  government   does  with                                                              
National  Forest  receipts  shouldn't   be  a  guiding  factor  in                                                              
borough  formation  or  expansion.   Singling  out  the  Ketchikan                                                              
Gateway  Borough  annexation is  inappropriate  [in  light of  the                                                              
fact  that] the  Wrangell  borough would  result  in taking  about                                                              
$250,000  of   National  Forest  receipts  from   the  unorganized                                                              
borough  to the  Wrangell  borough.   The  difference between  the                                                              
impact  of  the  Wrangell  borough  formation  and  the  Ketchikan                                                              
Gateway Borough  expansion is only  in terms of the  dollar amount                                                              
of Tongass National  Forest receipts.  For the  above reasons, Mr.                                                              
Brandt-Erichsen,  on  behalf  of the  Ketchikan  Gateway  Borough,                                                              
urged the committee not to forward HJR 30.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
[Co-Chair LeDoux returned the gavel to Co-Chair Fairclough.]                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:36:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA  inquired   as  to  the  benefits  of  this                                                              
proposed annexation.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BRANDT-ERICHSEN  said  there  are  several  reasons  for  the                                                              
proposed annexation.   He then stated  that it would  be incorrect                                                              
to  say that  the  potential of  National  Forest receipts  wasn't                                                              
taken  into  consideration.    However,  he  highlighted  that  it                                                              
wasn't the  driving factor,  which is evidenced  by the  fact that                                                              
the Ketchikan  Gateway Borough  Assembly  was prepared to  proceed                                                              
even  with  the prospect  of  not  receiving the  National  Forest                                                              
receipts.  He  mentioned the mineral exploration  possibilities in                                                              
the areas  to be annexed.   Most significantly,  Rudyard Bay  is a                                                              
world class  tourist destination  to which  about 50,000  tourists                                                              
went last  year.  When  there are problems,  as was the  case this                                                              
summer  with  a  plane crash,  the  response  services  come  from                                                              
Ketchikan.   He noted  that the  Ketchikan Gateway  Borough  has a                                                              
long history of  supporting the Ketchikan Volunteer  Rescue Squad.                                                              
In fact,  the borough  has purchased  a boat  and provided  office                                                              
space for the squad.   The Ketchikan Volunteer Rescue  Squad is an                                                              
initial  responder along  with  community  volunteers and  borough                                                              
firefighters.  If  [Rudyard Bay] is in the borough,  the Ketchikan                                                              
Gateway Borough is better able to handle providing services.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:38:30 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA  pointed out that the boundaries  chosen for                                                              
annexation  don't actually have  to do  with communities  that the                                                              
borough would want to develop and serve in the future.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.   BRANDT-ERICHSEN  acknowledged   that   there  aren't   large                                                              
settlements in the  area to be annexed, but reiterated  that there                                                              
are outlying  properties and  a couple of  lodges.  To  the extent                                                              
the owners  of the  aforementioned properties  want services  that                                                              
are  among those  that  borough  provides, the  Ketchikan  Gateway                                                              
Borough would provide  those.  He said that the  economic activity                                                              
in Ketchikan  is significantly impacted  by what happens  in those                                                              
outlying  areas.     Metlakatla  is  seeking  to   have  the  U.S.                                                              
Secretary of Interior  expand its boundaries to  include waters up                                                              
to  Canada.   The waters  desired  are prime  fishing grounds  for                                                              
charter,  sport,  and commercial  fishermen  from  Ketchikan.   If                                                              
Metlakatla  is   expanded  to  include  those  waters,   it  could                                                              
adversely  impact those  economic interests  in Ketchikan  whereas                                                              
if those  waters were  within the  Ketchikan Gateway Borough,  the                                                              
borough would have  a better ability to communicate  with the U.S.                                                              
Secretary  of Interior  and represent  the  citizens of  Ketchikan                                                              
whose livelihood could be impacted.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:41:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LEDOUX  related  her understanding  that  the  Ketchikan                                                              
Gateway Borough  is already performing search and  rescue services                                                              
in the areas proposed for annexation.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BRANDT-ERICHSEN   confirmed  that  the   Ketchikan  Volunteer                                                              
Rescue  Squad,   which  is  a  private  nonprofit   entity  that's                                                              
supported  by  the borough,  is  performing  those services.    In                                                              
further response  to Co-Chair LeDoux,  he confirmed that  the same                                                              
entity performs  search and  rescue services  within the  borough.                                                              
He  then  informed  the  committee   that  there  are  three  fire                                                              
departments in  the Ketchikan Gateway  Borough and one  within the                                                              
City of Ketchikan.   While those fire departments  may assist with                                                              
rescue, most  often the rescue  services performed are  outside of                                                              
the  service  areas for  those  fire  districts.   Therefore,  for                                                              
incidents  out on  the  water or  in  a more  remote  part of  the                                                              
borough, the  Ketchikan Volunteer  Rescue Squad is  the front-line                                                              
of response.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX  surmised then that the Ketchikan  Gateway Borough                                                              
Volunteer Firefighters  would still respond if the  proposed areas                                                              
are annexed.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BRANDT-ERICHSEN  confirmed  that  they would  likely  be  the                                                              
initial response.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX questioned  then how things would  be different if                                                              
the proposed area for annexation is annexed.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRANDT-ERICHSEN  said that  there would  be the potential  for                                                              
expanding  the service  areas of  the  existing fire  departments.                                                              
"More  directly, once  the economic  activity  that is  generating                                                              
the  need for  the services  is  within the  borough, there's  the                                                              
ability  to  develop  ways  to  get  revenue  from  that  economic                                                              
activity, which  can be  given as  grant supporting the  Volunteer                                                              
Rescue  Squad and  those  sorts  of efforts,"  he  explained.   In                                                              
further response,  Mr. Brandt-Erichsen  used Yes  Bay lodge  as an                                                              
example.   He explained that  with the  sales tax revenue  and the                                                              
transient  occupancy tax  revenue from the  visitors, the  borough                                                              
would have the  ability to provide some financial  support for the                                                              
Ketchikan Volunteer  Rescue Squad.  Although the  borough has done                                                              
so in the past, it hasn't been a regular budget item.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:44:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX related  her understanding that some  of the areas                                                              
being  annexed  are  fairly  remote  from  the  Ketchikan  Gateway                                                              
Borough.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRANDT-ERICHSEN  replied yes, adding that one may  need to get                                                              
there by  aircraft or boat.   He clarified that the  annexed areas                                                              
wouldn't necessarily  be service  areas on  their own,  but rather                                                              
may  be  included  in  a  larger   service  area.    For  example,                                                              
currently almost  all the populated  areas are within  an existing                                                              
fire  service  area.   Therefore,  if  the  borough was  to  adopt                                                              
nonareawide  fire powers,  those areas  would be  within the  fire                                                              
service area.   Similarly,  if one of  the existing  service areas                                                              
was expanded to include the areas to be annexed.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:45:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON  inquired as to  how much of an  increase in                                                              
funds and  land the  Ketchikan Gateway  Borough would  experience.                                                              
He also asked how  much would be taken from the  [National Forest]                                                              
receipts.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BRANDT-ERICHSEN  answered that  the  area  to be  annexed  is                                                              
about 4,300 square  miles, which would roughly  triple the current                                                              
borough  size.  He  pointed out  that currently  the Secure  Rural                                                              
Schools   payments   haven't   been    reauthorized.      If   the                                                              
distributions  of  receipts  are  based upon  timber  harvest  and                                                              
activity  within the Tongass  National Forest,  he estimated  that                                                              
the amount of money  will likely be less than $300,000.   However,                                                              
if  Congress appropriates  at the  same  funding level  as in  the                                                              
past for  the Secure  Rural Schools  funds, the Ketchikan  Gateway                                                              
Borough  would expect  an  increase  of about  $1.2  million.   He                                                              
explained that each  acre within the National Forest  is valued in                                                              
relation to  the total receipts  off the  forest and the  money is                                                              
distributed  based  on  how  many acres  are  within  a  borough's                                                              
boundaries.   The  distributions  are  based upon  the  geographic                                                              
boundaries  as of  September  30,  two years  prior  and thus  any                                                              
receipts  would  be  received two  years  out  if  reauthorization                                                              
occurs.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:48:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OLSON inquired as  to what  the borough  would use                                                              
the $1.2 million for if it's actually reauthorized.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BRANDT-ERICHSEN  answered   that  most  of  the  funds  would                                                              
probably go  to the Ketchikan  Gateway Borough's  school district.                                                              
He related  that about 75 percent  of the allocation  is earmarked                                                              
for  education.   Currently,  the borough  receives  approximately                                                              
$158 per student,  while the unorganized areas  receive $1,400 per                                                              
student.   If the  Wrangell Borough  is formed  and the  Ketchikan                                                              
Gateway Borough  annexation  is approved  and the funding  remains                                                              
at the same  level, Ketchikan would receive $500-$600  per student                                                              
and  the  unorganized  boroughs  would receive  about  $1,200  per                                                              
student.    Therefore,  the  unorganized  boroughs  would  face  a                                                              
reduction in  the per student  amounts for the unorganized  areas.                                                              
In further response  to Representative Olson,  Mr. Brandt-Erichsen                                                              
said  that  the  Ketchikan  Gateway   Borough  doesn't  anticipate                                                              
picking up any new students until the annexation of Hyder.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:49:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX asked  then if the smaller school  districts' loss                                                              
of  funds as  a  result  of the  annexation  would  result in  the                                                              
state,  which  serves as  the  school  board for  the  unorganized                                                              
boroughs,  having   to  supplement  from  the  general   fund  the                                                              
balance.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.   BRANDT-ERICHSEN   deferred  to   EED.      He  related   his                                                              
understanding  that the National  Forest receipts aren't  included                                                              
in the formula  for the basic need,  although they can  be used as                                                              
part of  the local required  tax burden.   He further  related his                                                              
understanding  that   most  districts  use  the   National  Forest                                                              
receipts in  addition to  the basic need  amount.  Therefore,  the                                                              
state wouldn't  necessarily be required  to makeup  those amounts,                                                              
but it  would be  a reduction in  the total  funds available.   If                                                              
the communities  wanted to  makeup the  loss from National  Forest                                                              
receipts, they would have to come from local revenue sources.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:51:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS  recalled a  community in his  district that                                                              
filed  for the formation  of a  municipality,  but the LBC  carved                                                              
out the  lodges in the  areas to be  annexed.  The  aforementioned                                                              
resulted  in thwarting  the  formation of  the  municipality.   He                                                              
opined  that it  seems surprising  that  now the  LBC is  allowing                                                              
lodges to be included  in the area to be annexed  in the Ketchikan                                                              
Gateway  Borough.     The   aforementioned  seems  to   illustrate                                                              
inconsistency.    Representative  Thomas,  recalling his  time  on                                                              
this  committee,   related  his   understanding  that   annexation                                                              
usually  occurs  when a  community  outside  an area  impacts  the                                                              
services   provided   by  the   community   desiring   annexation.                                                              
However, he didn't  believe that to be the situation  in this case                                                              
and  thus  he  opined  that  the  real  reason  for  the  proposed                                                              
annexation is the money [from the National Forest receipts].                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:54:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD CARLSON,  Superintendent,  testified in  favor of  HJR 30,                                                              
although  he  mentioned  that  he   strongly  believes  there  are                                                              
constitutional  questions.     The  annexation  will   cost  small                                                              
unorganized  communities  and  the   districts  within  them  $1.2                                                              
million  annually.   Klawock's  share  of  that is  about  $63,000                                                              
annually.   Although $63,000  isn't a  large sum,  it will  have a                                                              
tremendous impact  on Klawock,  particularly when compounded  over                                                              
the years.   The  aforementioned loss  in revenue translates  into                                                              
one  staff position.    He said  that the  district  will have  to                                                              
severely  reduce  or  eliminate   some  educational  programs  and                                                              
potential  reduction  of staff.    Furthermore, districts  are  up                                                              
against  a  timeline  in  which  it will  have  to  make  staffing                                                              
decisions.    While the  amount  of  actual  dollars seems  to  be                                                              
relatively  small, this  could be  a death blow  for some  schools                                                              
and  school  districts  in  Southeast.    Mr.  Carlson  urged  the                                                              
committee not to  allow the aforementioned to occur,  but to allow                                                              
HJR 30 to go before the full House for further debate.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:58:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX  inquired as  to how close  Klawock and  the other                                                              
impacted  communities  are from  the  land the  Ketchikan  Gateway                                                              
Borough wants to  annex.  She asked if there's  any possibility of                                                              
annexing the land and some of the communities.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:58:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH  asked if the  committee would like to  have a                                                              
work  session with  the LBC  to discuss  the 14 points  it has  to                                                              
consider for  annexation.   Upon determining  that there  was some                                                              
interest  from committee  members,  Co-Chair Fairclough  announced                                                              
that she would try to set up a work session.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:59:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  CARLSON said  that  Klawock  isn't very  close  to the  areas                                                              
proposed to be annexed.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:00:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KAREN  CLEARY,   Vice  President,  Prince  of  Wales   Chamber  of                                                              
Commerce, began  by noting  that although she  is not  speaking in                                                              
this capacity,  she is  the president of  the Klawock  City School                                                              
Board.  Ms. Cleary  related that in these very  small communities,                                                              
the school districts  are often one of the primary  employers.  As                                                              
positions are lost  due to the loss of funding, jobs  will be lost                                                              
and stores in  the community will not have customers.   Therefore,                                                              
there's a  ripple effect.  Although  Ms. Cleary said she  was sure                                                              
that the  loss of the $1.2  million is an unintended  consequence,                                                              
it's  a  consequence  that  can't  be  endured.    Therefore,  she                                                              
encouraged the  committee to move  HJR 30 to protect  the children                                                              
and small communities of Prince of Wales.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:02:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RONALD  ERICKSON,  Superintendant,  Craig  City  School  District,                                                              
testified in support  of HJR 30.  He emphasized that  the issue is                                                              
money.  The problem  in Craig is that it's a  first class city and                                                              
the resources from  the National Forest receipts are  used to help                                                              
support the school  district.  Under the proposed  annexation, the                                                              
loss for  the Craig  City School  District and  the City  of Craig                                                              
would amount  to $165,000, which  equals approximately  40 percent                                                              
of  the  local contribution.    Craig  has  a limited  ability  to                                                              
generate resources  and funds, and therefore the  loss of $165,000                                                              
would mean the loss  of 2-3 positions in the district  if no other                                                              
resources are found.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:04:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX  inquired as to  where Craig would look  for other                                                              
resources.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ERICKSON answered  that the  school district  would look  for                                                              
grants  and   approach  the  city.     However,  from   the  local                                                              
standpoint,  the availability  of funds  is limited.   In  further                                                              
response to  Co-Chair LeDoux, Mr.  Erickson said that none  of the                                                              
districts would be  eligible to receive more funds  from the state                                                              
due to the loss of the National Forest receipts.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:05:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DON  JOHNSON,  Superintendant,   Hydaburg  City  School  District,                                                              
related that although  the amount of funds Hydaburg  would lose is                                                              
relatively small, the  district has a small budget.   He indicated                                                              
that  approximately $34,000  would  be lost  due  to the  proposed                                                              
annexation,  which   is  about  $10,000  more  than   the  in-kind                                                              
contribution  from the  City of  Hydaburg.  Although  it's  a very                                                              
important  program,  the  vocational education  program  could  be                                                              
cut.    The   vocational  education  program  includes   a  diving                                                              
program, which  has certified  divers over  the last seven  years.                                                              
The diving  program has really had  an impact on the  children and                                                              
the school  as the  classes are full  every year.   Unfortunately,                                                              
that's  the program  that would  have to  be cut,  which would  be                                                              
devastating to the  children in Hydaburg.  Hydaburg  already has a                                                              
high unemployment  rate, and therefore  to lose the  program would                                                              
result in  the loss  of training  for young people  in a  field in                                                              
which they could work.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:07:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LEDOUX  asked  if  Hydaburg  is  part  of  the  Wrangell                                                              
annexation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JOHNSON  replied  no,  and specified  that  Hydaburg  is  the                                                              
southernmost city on Prince of Wales Island.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:07:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAHLSTROM  related  that  she  and  several  other                                                              
legislators  have  discussed the  aforementioned  diving  program,                                                              
which has  kept several kids  in school.   She then  commended Mr.                                                              
Johnson and  the diving  instructor and  further related  that she                                                              
is trying  to find a  way to utilize  the program in  other school                                                              
districts.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:08:03 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA  recalled visiting Hydaburg four  years ago,                                                              
and  remembered the  stress  Prince  of Wales  faces  to keep  its                                                              
economy going.   She then inquired  as to the number  of students.                                                              
She also  inquired as to  how long the  forest receipts  have been                                                              
available for  [Hydaburg], and  inquired as  to the percentage  of                                                              
the total budget.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JOHNSON answered  that  the  total National  Forest  receipts                                                              
received  By  Hydaburg  amounts  to 10-12  percent  of  the  total                                                              
budget, although  he noted that the  $34,000 will amount  to a lot                                                              
less than that.   This last fall there were 77  students, which is                                                              
a decrease over  the past several years.  For  [Hydaburg] the loss                                                              
of five students is devastating for the school's budget.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:10:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DICK COOSE,  began by  relating that  he served  for two  terms on                                                              
the  Ketchikan Gateway  Borough Assembly  back in  1997 and  2003.                                                              
He related  that he was one  of the instigators of  this [proposed                                                              
annexation].   He  further related  that  he is  a retired  forest                                                              
service  employee.    In  fact,  he was  the  district  ranger  in                                                              
Ketchikan from  1980-1987 during which  he opined there  should be                                                              
a larger  borough.  In  1987, the intent  was to follow  the Model                                                              
Borough  Boundary.   He  acknowledged that  a  consequence of  the                                                              
aforementioned   is  redistribution   of   the  forest   receipts,                                                              
although  he opined  that it  wasn't  the primary  reason for  the                                                              
annexation.   The  primary reason  for  annexation, he  proffered,                                                              
was the  influence a local  government, especially a  borough, can                                                              
have  with  the  U.S.  Forest  Service  through  a  memorandum  of                                                              
understanding  to  address forest  management.    He reminded  the                                                              
committee of the  loss of the timber economy  in Southeast Alaska.                                                              
In fact,  Ketchikan lost 25  percent of  its kids and  the average                                                              
wage has  decreased.   Therefore, Mr. Coose  opined that  it makes                                                              
sense  for   Ketchikan  to  try   to  follow  the   state's  laws,                                                              
regulations,  and constitution  to form  a complete  borough.   He                                                              
explained  that there  isn't the  inclusion of  a great deal  more                                                              
population  because the  areas proposed  for  annexation tried  to                                                              
remain in the [Model  Borough Boundary].  Prince of  Wales makes a                                                              
logical borough  boundary itself,  he mentioned.   Mr.  Coose said                                                              
that  the  quandary  is  that  timber  harvest  has  decreased  95                                                              
percent  in the  last 10  years  in the  Tongass National  Forest.                                                              
Although  there's a  new forest  plan, he said  he didn't  believe                                                              
that  could  be produced  and  thus  he  surmised that  "we"  will                                                              
remain at 50  million feet, which won't increase  forest receipts.                                                              
From  all   the  indications   he  has   received  from   Alaska's                                                              
congressional  delegation, the  subsidy for  Secure Rural  Schools                                                              
isn't going  to continue  and the  National Forest receipts  won't                                                              
be  much and  everyone will  be hurting,  including the  Ketchikan                                                              
Gateway  Borough.   Mr. Coose  pointed out  that the  state is  in                                                              
control  of the  distribution  of  the National  Forest  receipts,                                                              
which is  distributed on the  basis of  acreage not the  number of                                                              
kids.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:13:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OLSON  asked  if  Mr.  Coose  would  still  pursue                                                              
annexation even if  National Forest receipts weren't  going to the                                                              
Ketchikan Gateway Borough.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  COOSE replied  yes,  adding  that he  views  it  as a  forest                                                              
management issue.   He also said that he believes  National Forest                                                              
receipts will  "go away."  He  clarified that he is  in opposition                                                              
to HJR 30.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:14:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LAUREN BURCH,  Superintendant, Southeast  Island School  District,                                                              
testified  in favor  of HJR  30.   Mr.  Burch opined,  "We do  ...                                                              
small schools exceptionally  well."  In fact, 7  of the district's                                                              
8 schools  have 10-15 students  in each.   He related that  all of                                                              
the  schools  in   the  Southeast  Island  School   District  meet                                                              
adequate yearly progress  (AYP), with two schools in  the top ten.                                                              
He  informed  the committee  that  the  school  in Hyder  will  be                                                              
retained without  the National Forest  receipts, which  amounts to                                                              
$82,000  [for Hyder].   He  recalled that  the overall  [district]                                                              
budget  is $4  million of  which  approximately half  would be  in                                                              
federal grants and  other grants.  Therefore, the  $82,000 loss to                                                              
Hyder would  result in  the [reduction] of  services to  the other                                                              
schools  in the district.      Although  testimony indicated  that                                                              
residents of  Hyder are  more Canadian  than Alaskan,  the parents                                                              
of children  in Hyder  are quite adamant  that their  children not                                                              
be forced  to attend  Canadian schools.   Mr.  Burch said  that he                                                              
hasn't  noted  any  keen  interest   from  the  Ketchikan  Gateway                                                              
Borough with regard  to absorbing the Hyder students.   Therefore,                                                              
he  presumed   that  the  students   in  Hyder  would   either  be                                                              
encouraged to  attend school in  Canada or utilize  correspondence                                                              
programs.    Hyder  doesn't  want  to be  part  of  this  proposed                                                              
annexation, he  related.  There is  a school in Meyers  Chuck that                                                              
is included in  this annexation, however the community  has shrunk                                                              
such that  a school  is no longer  viable.   At last count,  there                                                              
was one student  in Meyers Chuck who is doing correspondence.   He                                                              
indicated  that had there  been any  other economic  opportunities                                                              
in this  area to encourage year-round  residents and the  need for                                                              
a  school, that  would've  been  the responsibility  of  Southeast                                                              
Island School  District.  However,  under the proposed  annexation                                                              
it will be the responsibility of the Ketchikan School District.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:18:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAMES  GOULD, Mayor,  City of Thorne  Bay, testified  in favor  of                                                              
moving forward HJR  30.  He characterized the  proposed annexation                                                              
as a  money grab that  will devastate all  the communities  on the                                                              
Prince of  Wales Island.   To the  small town  of Thorne  Bay, the                                                              
$28,000-plus  of the suspected  loss due  to the annexation  would                                                              
result in the loss  of at least one city position.   Economically,                                                              
Thorne  Bay  has  been  devastated  by  the  loss  of  the  timber                                                              
industry   and  now  the   proposed  annexation   will  take   the                                                              
community's  support  for  the   school  system  and  roads.    As                                                              
mentioned  earlier,  there are  thousands  of  miles of  roads  on                                                              
Prince of  Wales Island.   In the small  community of  Thorne Bay,                                                              
there  are approximately  21 miles  of unpaved  road that  must be                                                              
maintained.   He related  that as  a result  of annexation  Thorne                                                              
Bay would  lose $23,800 of its  road maintenance funds.   Although                                                              
that may sound  small, a loss in  that amount would result  in the                                                              
City of Thorne  Bay seeking outside funding or  elimination of the                                                              
services  to   40  percent  of   the  population.     Mayor  Gould                                                              
emphasized  that the Southeast  Island School  District is  one of                                                              
the  major economic  players in  the  economy of  Thorne Bay,  and                                                              
therefore the loss  to the district in terms of  jobs and families                                                              
would be absolutely devastating to Thorne Bay.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:20:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARK  MINNILLO noted  that although  he is  a member  of the  City                                                              
Council of  Thorne Bay,  he is  speaking as  a resident  of Thorne                                                              
Bay and father of  two sons who attend school in  Thorne Bay.  Mr.                                                              
Minnillo testified in  favor of HJR 30 and expressed  hope that it                                                              
would  pass  based on  the  repercussions  it  would have  on  the                                                              
schools.   He noted that  he is also  a wrestling coach  in Thorne                                                              
Bay.   Funding for sports  is always an  issue, he remarked.   The                                                              
Thorne Bay  wrestling team  wrestles the other  kids on  Prince of                                                              
Wales  Island,   but  to  expand   their  experience   Thorne  Bay                                                              
wrestlers   need  to  wrestle   others  off   the  island.     The                                                              
aforementioned   would   require   transportation  via   boat   or                                                              
airplane.   Mr.  Minnillo related  that the  Thorne Bay  wrestling                                                              
team  was  allocated  $400  from the  school  district,  which  is                                                              
hardly adequate  to cover  the costs of  wrestling on  the island.                                                              
Therefore,  to further  lose the  National  Forest receipts  would                                                              
result in  no travel for these  wrestlers.  Furthermore,  the loss                                                              
of the National  Forest receipts would also result  in the loss of                                                              
positions, including teachers with children in the school.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:22:17 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SHERRI  HAYWARD,   Annette  Island  School   District,  Metlakatla                                                              
Indian  Community,  informed  the   committee  that  she  has  two                                                              
children who are  members of the Annette Island  Reserve, although                                                              
she  is not  a  member.   She  said that  she's  present today  to                                                              
advocate for  all the children  of the Southeast  Island District.                                                              
Ms.  Hayward opined  that this  proposed annexation  is wrong  and                                                              
every  child matters.   She further  opined that  if the  proposed                                                              
annexation  is  denied  it  won't  impact  the  Ketchikan  Gateway                                                              
Borough, but if  it's approved it will impact all  of the children                                                              
of  Southeast Alaska,  their  education, and  their  future.   Ms.                                                              
Hayward  concluded by  encouraging  the committee  to support  HJR
30.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:25:28 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LYNN  CHRYSTAL, Member,  Local Boundary  Commission, provided  the                                                              
following remarks:                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Borough  annexations  are  a  constitutionally  endorsed                                                                   
     means of fulfilling  the purpose of Title  10, Section 1                                                                   
     of  Alaska's  constitution  at  the local  level:    "to                                                                   
     provide  for   maximum  local  self-government   with  a                                                                   
     minimum  of  local  government   units  and  to  prevent                                                                   
     duplication   of   tax-levying  jurisdictions."      The                                                                   
     Ketchikan Gateway  Borough petitioned for  annexation of                                                                   
     4,701   square  miles,   instead   the  Local   Boundary                                                                   
     Commission recommend  annexation of 4,510  square miles,                                                                   
     putting  Meyers Chuck  and Union Bay  into the  Wrangell                                                                   
     Borough.   There are  three elements  to the  annexation                                                                   
     decision  by  the  Local Boundary  Commission.    Number                                                                   
     one,  the  process defined  by  law.   Number  two,  the                                                                   
     standards  in law.   And then three,  the facts  and the                                                                   
     record.     The  annexation  process  was   lengthy  and                                                                   
     thorough,  all  procedural   requirements  were  met  or                                                                   
     exceeded.  I  have Attachment A Summaries  "Key Steps in                                                                   
     the Ketchikan  Annexation Proceedings" ....   Commission                                                                   
     decisions  on   borough  annexations  are   governed  by                                                                   
     standards  in   law,  the  commission's   evaluation  of                                                                   
     borough annexation  proposals is  governed by 11  formal                                                                   
     standards   established  in   law.    Generally,   these                                                                   
     standards  relate  to  such factors  as  suitability  of                                                                   
     proposed  boundaries,  the economy,  the  transportation                                                                   
     and other  factors, common  interest, and best  interest                                                                   
     of  the state.    Attachment B  lists  the 11  standards                                                                   
     applicable  to the  borough  annexation.   Based on  the                                                                   
     law and the  facts in record, the commission  found that                                                                   
     annexation  of 4,510  square miles  satisfied all  legal                                                                   
     standards.    The  record of  the  Ketchikan  annexation                                                                   
     proceeding  consists of  the  borough's petition,  which                                                                   
     includes   a  pre-petition   hearing  and  the   comment                                                                   
     materials  received  during  the  pre-petition  process;                                                                   
     three  responsive   briefs,  written  comments   on  the                                                                   
     petition  by  19 persons;  the  borough's  reply  brief;                                                                   
     DCCED's preliminary  report and written comments  on it;                                                                   
     a  letter of  non-objection  to  the annexation  by  the                                                                   
     Department of  Education and Early Development;  DCCED's                                                                   
     final  report  and  statements,  testimony,  and  public                                                                   
     comments  made at  the  commission's  November 6,  2007,                                                                   
     public  hearing.  A  copy of  the commission's  decision                                                                   
     that is  the basis for  the legislative proposal  before                                                                   
     you sets out  the commission's evaluation of  the record                                                                   
     in view of  the standards in law ....   The commission's                                                                   
     letter dated  February 1, 2008, sets out  our opposition                                                                   
     to  House   Joint  Resolution   30  and  notes   several                                                                   
     misstatements  of fact in the  resolution.   Among other                                                                   
     things  we noted  that every  member  of the  commission                                                                   
     who participated  in the annexation proceeding  received                                                                   
     and  studied all  documents in  the case  and heard  the                                                                   
     testimony of  all parties and interested members  of the                                                                   
     public before making the decision.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:28:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX inquired as to whether impacts on areas not to                                                                  
be annexed are considered by the LBC.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRYSTAL answered  that he didn't believe  that's specifically                                                              
mentioned  in  the  law,  although   the  LBC  always  listens  to                                                              
interested  individuals.   During  the  public hearings,  the  LBC                                                              
listens  to anyone  with objection.   Under  the law  many of  the                                                              
transitory  matters   that  are   unknown,  such  as   the  timber                                                              
receipts,  are   difficult  upon  which  to  base   decisions  but                                                              
certainly it was taken into consideration.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LEDOUX surmised  then that  the fact  that the  outlying                                                              
communities  would  lose  a  considerable   amount  from  National                                                              
Forest receipts  in the  short-term wasn't  considered during  the                                                              
annexation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  CHRYSTAL  said he  couldn't  say  that it  wasn't  considered                                                              
because it  was one of  the points that  was discussed.   However,                                                              
it  wasn't  an overriding  [factor  in  the]  decision.   At  this                                                              
point,  the  National  Forest  receipts  are  not in  law  as  the                                                              
program  has been  sunsetted.   He  opined that  when a  permanent                                                              
decision in  regard to  boundaries is  being made, it's  difficult                                                              
to "use a lot of transitory funds in our decision making."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:30:56 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRYSTAL remarked  that the suggestion of a work  session is a                                                              
good idea.  He then concluded his testimony as follows:                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     The evidence  submitted to the LBC, its  discussions and                                                                   
     decisional   statements,  constitutes   a  record   that                                                                   
     sufficiently  reflects  the basis  for  the decision  of                                                                   
     the  LBC to  enable  meaningful  judicial review.    And                                                                   
     then in  conclusion, the  ... commission ...  reconfirms                                                                   
     its  recommendation  that annexation  to  the  Ketchikan                                                                   
     Gateway Borough  and oppose  the resolution before  you.                                                                   
     And I certainly thank you for your time.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:31:47 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS  WATSON, Mayor,  City of  Craig, emphasized  that he  is in                                                              
strong  opposition to  the annexation  proposed  by the  Ketchikan                                                              
Gateway Borough  but in support of  moving out HJR 30.   The issue                                                              
at hand  in this situation  is the National  Forest receipts.   He                                                              
informed the committee  that he has been a member  of the National                                                              
Forest Counties  and Schools Coalition,  which has worked  on this                                                              
issue for years.   [These National Forest receipts]  will continue                                                              
to  be an  issue,  he  opined.   Mayor  Watson  said that  if  the                                                              
National Forest  receipts aren't  an issue, the Ketchikan  Gateway                                                              
Borough should've  went forward  with an annexation  petition that                                                              
specifies  that it  doesn't want  any  other community's  National                                                              
Forest  receipts.   He highlighted  that Ketchikan  isn't, in  its                                                              
proposed  annexation,  increasing  its  population  or  increasing                                                              
enrollment in their  schools.  Furthermore, the  Ketchikan Gateway                                                              
Borough  doesn't   have  road  powers.    However,   Ketchikan  is                                                              
Southeast Alaska's  second largest  economy and  has, on  a number                                                              
of recent occasions  in recent months, touted the  large amount of                                                              
sales tax it has  collected and the things on which  it will spend                                                              
those taxes.   He further  highlighted that  Ketchikan is  able to                                                              
fund two  competing forms of  municipal government,  and therefore                                                              
he  questioned  why the  borough  needs  to  take money  from  the                                                              
smaller communities.   The  economies of all  but a couple  of the                                                              
communities  [from which  the borough  will  take National  Forest                                                              
receipts] are just  barely hanging on financially  or already face                                                              
financial difficulties.   The needs will remain even  if the funds                                                              
are  no  longer.   Mayor  Watson  emphasized  that Craig  and  the                                                              
Prince of  Wales communities have no  means to recoup the  lose of                                                              
funds  if  the proposed  annexation  were  to  move forward.    He                                                              
stated that  becoming a borough  is not an  option for Craig.   In                                                              
fact,  studies commissioned  by  island communities  have  clearly                                                              
illustrated  that at  this time  Prince of  Wales Island  couldn't                                                              
generate  enough revenue  to  fund even  the  very basic  required                                                              
borough  services.     Therefore,  Prince  of  Wales   Island  was                                                              
eliminated  from the Mandatory  Boroughization  Act that  passed a                                                              
couple  of years  ago.   With the  aforementioned  in mind,  Mayor                                                              
Watson  requested that  the committee  vote to  deny the  proposed                                                              
annexation and move HJR 30 from committee.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:35:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BOB BLASCO,  Attorney at  Law, informed the  committee that  he is                                                              
representing  the 17  communities  and school  districts who  have                                                              
filed the  appeal with the superior  court.  He related  that this                                                              
loss of  National Forest receipts  will continue as long  as there                                                              
is such a program.   He then pointed out that  there are two parts                                                              
to the  National Forest receipts:   the Secure Rural  Schools Act,                                                              
which is  the $1.2 million;  and the underlying  Tongass receipts.                                                              
Even if  the Secure  Rural Schools  Act isn't  funded, all  of the                                                              
communities  and school  districts  will lose  22  percent of  the                                                              
underlying  funds   to  the  Ketchikan  Gateway   Borough  if  the                                                              
proposed  annexation  is approved.    However, the  borough  isn't                                                              
taking in any new  people or school students and  thus no services                                                              
would  be provided.    Mr.  Blasco  emphasized the  importance  of                                                              
Representative  Thomas's   comment  that  this  isn't   a  borough                                                              
formation.   There are  constitutional mandates  to form  boroughs                                                              
as is the  case with Wrangell, but  there are no such  mandates to                                                              
annex land  into boroughs.   Recalling Mr. Coose's  testimony, Mr.                                                              
Blasco opined  that it's a shame  that the committee  doesn't have                                                              
the  comments  from  members  of  the  Ketchikan  Gateway  Borough                                                              
Assembly  when   it  considered  filing  the   current  annexation                                                              
petition.   Those comments were  related to the  borough obtaining                                                              
more money.   As was mentioned  earlier, if the  Ketchikan Gateway                                                              
Borough  would move  forward  with  the proposed  annexation  even                                                              
without the  funds, the  petition could've  been filed  specifying                                                              
that the  borough wouldn't  take the  [National Forest]  receipts.                                                              
He  highlighted that  those  petitioning to  form  the borough  in                                                              
Skagway did  exactly that.  The  Ketchikan Gateway Borough  is not                                                              
willing to  do so, he  opined, because the  amount of funds  is so                                                              
substantial.   Furthermore,  the  PILT amounts  to about  $598,000                                                              
for these  communities, of  which the loss  would amount  to about                                                              
half of that to  these communities yearly.  The  PILT is unrelated                                                              
to the Tongass  National Forest receipts program.   He pointed out                                                              
that either  Ketchikan  will gain  the PILT funds  or the  federal                                                              
funding  will be  lost.   Mr. Blasco  opined, "It's  just hard  to                                                              
imagine how,  under a best interest  of the state  standard, we're                                                              
looking  at something  like  this annexation  that's  in the  best                                                              
interest  of  the   state  for  these  17  school   districts  and                                                              
communities  ...  to  lose  that  substantial  amount  of  federal                                                              
funding on a yearly basis, which is not going to go away."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:40:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRETT AGENBROD,  Superintendant,  Annette Island School  District,                                                              
Metlakatla  Indian Community,  echoed  Mr.  Blasco's comment  that                                                              
[annexation], which  is proposed by the Ketchikan  Gateway Borough                                                              
petition, isn't  mandated by the  constitution.  He  then recalled                                                              
testimony questioning  what message the legislature  would send if                                                              
it  didn't approve  the LBC's  decision.   Mr. Agenbrod  countered                                                              
that  by questioning  the  message the  legislature  and LBC  send                                                              
when  the   Ketchikan  Gateway   Borough  annexation   application                                                              
excluded the  communities of  Meyers Chuck,  Union Bay,  and Hyder                                                              
and refused  to include  them even  upon the LBC's  recommendation                                                              
to do  so.  In the  2007 petition, the  inclusion of Union  Bay is                                                              
held  out as  a major  change.   However,  that  community has  no                                                              
school  children and  thus the borough  incurs  no costs to  annex                                                              
the  area.   The one  community  that would  benefit from  borough                                                              
services is Hyder,  but that community wasn't [included  in either                                                              
annexation  proposal].   Mr. Agenbrod  relayed that  the folks  he                                                              
represents  at   the  Annette  Island  School  District   and  the                                                              
Metlakatla Indian Community   don't feel it's in  the state's best                                                              
interest  to  burden  the  Southeast  Island  School  District  in                                                              
Prince  of Wales  by Ketchikan  taking $83,000  of their  National                                                              
Forest receipts  without annexing  Hyder.  At  the very  least, he                                                              
opined that  the LBC  should've required  immediate annexation  of                                                              
Hyder rather  than suggesting  possibly five  years later  with no                                                              
trigger  to  implement  annexation.    Mr.  Agenbrod  mentioned  a                                                              
conflict  of interest  with  a former  LBC  staffer who  basically                                                              
reversed the  1999 decisions and  applied for and obtained  a six-                                                              
figure position and  a multi-year contract as the  city manager of                                                              
Ketchikan.       Until   there's    an   investigation    of   the                                                              
aforementioned,  the decision  regarding  the proposed  annexation                                                              
should be  halted.   Mr. Agenbrod  related his  support of  HJR 30                                                              
moving forward.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:44:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  announced that  the  committee  will hold  a                                                              
work session on the LBC.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:45:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PETER  CAFFAL-DAVIS  noted  his  appreciation  of  Mr.  Chrystal's                                                              
comments  because Mr.  Chrystal heard  many of  the arguments  the                                                              
committee is hearing.   He related that the LBC  chair, throughout                                                              
the Ketchikan Gateway  Borough annexation meetings,  said that the                                                              
LBC is  bound by law  not to consider  the financial  impacts such                                                              
as those  being discussed that will  devastate the schools  in the                                                              
unorganized  borough.   If  the LBC  is not  allowed  to base  its                                                              
decision   on   this   transitory   financial   information,   the                                                              
legislature can do  so.  Mr. Caffal-Davis pointed  out that no one                                                              
in the  areas being  annexed or in  the Ketchikan Gateway  Borough                                                              
had the  opportunity to  vote on  this proposed annexation,  which                                                              
he  opined is  a serious  constitutional  issue.   He related  his                                                              
understanding  that  even  residents   of  the  Ketchikan  Gateway                                                              
Borough  are  opposed  to the  proposed  annexation.    Originally                                                              
borough  administrators  said there  would  be an  opportunity  to                                                              
vote  on the  proposed annexation,  but reversed  that opinion  at                                                              
the  very next  meeting.   Therefore, the  proposed annexation  is                                                              
going   forward  from   the  commissioners   who  aren't   elected                                                              
officials.   Mr. Caffal-Davis  opined that  the Ketchikan  Gateway                                                              
Borough   and   Mr.   Bockhorst   were   hoping   that   the   LBC                                                              
recommendation would  sail through without attention  from elected                                                              
officials.  In  conclusion, Mr. Caffal-Davis urged  passage of HJR
30  as he  said that  he wanted  to see  this proposed  annexation                                                              
overturned.    He  then  turned  to Hyder  and  related  that  the                                                              
Ketchikan  Gateway  Borough  hasn't  sought  a  relationship  with                                                              
Hyder and has told  Hyder that if it is annexed,  the Hyder school                                                              
would be closed and correspondence would be utilized.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:48:40 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH  recalled the  Chugiak Eagle River  annexation                                                              
into the Municipality  of Anchorage, for which there  was no vote.                                                              
She further  recalled that challenges  to that annexation  haven't                                                              
been successful either.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  CAFFAL-DAVIS  clarified  that  he  doesn't  believe  the  LBC                                                              
commissioners  did  anything  inappropriate,  but he  related  his                                                              
hope that [the legislature] gets to vote on the matter.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:49:36 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL  BRENDIBLE,  Council  Member,  Metlakatla  Indian  Community,                                                              
informed  the  committee  that  he  is a  past  president  of  the                                                              
Annette  Island School  Board  and past  president  of the  Alaska                                                              
Association of  School Boards.   He then  related his  support for                                                              
HJR  30.   He  related that  due  to the  closure  of the  Tongass                                                              
National  Forest,  Metlakatla  has  lost  400  individuals.    The                                                              
proposed  annexation  is all  about  money, he  opined.   All  the                                                              
schools [outside  the borough]  will have to  find a way  in which                                                              
to  makeup the  loss  of  funding.   With  regard  to the  earlier                                                              
mention   of  Metlakatla's   proposed   boundary  expansion,   Mr.                                                              
Brendible clarified that it's an expansion into the water only.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:51:36 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ERIC GEBHART, Superintendent,  Kake School District,  testified in                                                              
support of  HJR 30.   This year Kake's  school will  receive about                                                              
$170,000  in National  Forest  receipts  and it's  projected  that                                                              
approximately  $40,000 would  be  lost in  the coming  year.   Mr.                                                              
Gebhart opined,  "I can't see  how it is  in the best  interest of                                                              
the state  to take funds  from so many and  give it to  one single                                                              
entity, again,  without any  ... increase  in service  ... without                                                              
any pickup as far as students."                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:53:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH,  upon  determining  no one  else  wished  to                                                              
testify, announced that the public hearing would be left open.                                                                  

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